Curse

Patrick Smit · May 29, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Monsters are claimed to be able to activate skills at will, without regard for energy or not. Yes E-denial gets them to 0 energy and hurts them, however they are claimed to continue casting afterwards. Either proofing that their energy regen is high or that they don't need energy for activating skills (i don't know which one, but either is a good explanation).

On wiki they claim they have very high regeneration rates. I know for sure that Koss is right: "Hey that's cheating".

I guess they done that to prevent everyone from running Edenial, effectively mashing all mobs away even in hardmode.

Spazzer · May 29, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Back when you could farm outside of Harvest Temple with Spirit bond and SV/AV, it certainly did take a while before monsters started taking damage from Famine. They did eventually take damage. Monsters have too much energy, but it's not unlimited.

It is enough to make mesmers lose a lot of their effectiveness, of course.

Series · May 29, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

/signed for AI to have a visable energy bar under their health bar so that e-denial becomes an effective PvE strategy, making mesmers much more useful

lennymon · May 29, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Im able to edeny the holy wrath (which by the way is -10e per hit taken, not -5) seeds in ascalon in HM with an axe no problem, they die nicely and it doesn't even take all that long.

Edit: if it wasn't clear I'm just saying that while I can't say that monsters are cheating with exhaustion, I *can* say that it's easy to run them out of energy using their own stupidity.

HayesA · May 29, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I use AV when i do the deadsword farm with my ele, and the baddies don't try to savage chop (or whatever it's called; the interuption skill based on energy.) after I cast AV on my self. (Ancester's Visiage; each time they attack me, loose 3 energy.) Tried in both normal, and HM. ;-)

Ensign · May 29, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

I don't know if monsters cheat on energy regeneration...they might, but I don't think they do inherently. If they do it's only by a few pips.

Two of the bonuses to mobs in Hard Mode is +5 to all attributes, and +33% max energy. For most caster mobs that means a base energy in the 50ish range, and on Eles it's that, +4 per point of Energy Storage. Ele mobs tended to have 12-16 base ES in normal mode, that's 17-21 in Hard Mode. So an Ele probably has 130something base energy in Hard Mode, not something that's going to be easily depleted.

Peace,
-CxE

Red-Tide · May 29, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

umm not easily depeleted??? Do the math on 38 Mind blast's with exhaustion...

It's just sick, I don't expect the game to be easy but some crap in HM is just to powerful and unbalanced.

lennymon · May 30, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Yeah? Red-Tide how many foes, and over how long. Without doing a control with a character with known attributes your indignation is arguably baseless. Yes, it is harder but that's what 'we' wanted after all.

Spazzer · May 30, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

Yeah? Red-Tide how many foes, and over how long. Without doing a control with a character with known attributes your indignation is arguably baseless. Yes, it is harder but that's what 'we' wanted after all.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10162312

Halfthought · May 30, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

And again I must ask the question... if the AI doesn't play by the rules, then why should we?

because you don't attack the guy whos been prot spirited, spirit bonded, bonded, has stoneflesh aura plus approx 200 al worth of armor buffs

(I hope)

Kale Ironfist · May 30, 2007, 03:48 AM // 03:48

That's a kind of battle I don't like to be reminded of. My guild needed some practice runs in TA to get back into the feel of Guild Wars PvP after having spent many months away from it, and we ended up facing a mishmash of casters, one of whom was a geotank. He was the last one alive and didn't try to resurrect his teammates so he probably used his signet.

My Lightning Orb did 4 damage, Blinding Surge and Enervating Charge did 0. My fellow warrior did 65 damage with a <50%HP Final Thrust.

At least the battle before it had a Monk using Frenzied Defense *laughs manically*.

Former Ruling · May 30, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

The AI does indeed cheat, but its on a Per monster Per instance basis.

I found out alot of weird things about Monsters and Energy back when I was testing the now almost defunct R/Me Famine Farmer build (Get in a "safespot" from a boss that uses ranged attacks and lay Shackles,etc and let famine kill them).

Monster's don't always have the same stats on every instance for example.

The first test subject was Stonewrath. He Gale's 5 times as it recharges then waits for a long period of time before Galeing again, I assume he is coded to Exhaust his bar til he has just enough to cast his other stuff left, then not cast gale again til he is fully unexhausted. There were runs where he could be Shackled down into taking Famine damage (Divert his Stone Daggers or he'll never attack with wand), and other runs where apparently his regen was so high that he never fully hit 0 energy even through attacking under shackles. If you let him Stone Dagger - Some runs he would slow down and have to throw in a wand attack between stone daggers when energy reserves got low, and some where he would just spam it til the cows come home with just the aftercast time inbetween.

Sir Tificate · May 30, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Forgive me if this was mentioned, but remember that Mind Shock hits 2x per cast.
Still, though, thats quite a bit of exhaustion they'd build up.

Epinephrine · May 30, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

very good point - 38 actuallly means 19 Mindshocks cast, between 2 Drakes that's about 10 each, doable on a mere 100 energy, which they easily have.

housecalls · May 31, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

At the end of the day who says that they have to play by the same rules as players? Why should they have to? They are there to make it very hard for us, thats why Hero interupter FTW!!

housecalls · May 31, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

At the end of the day who says that they have to play by the same rules as players? Why should they have to? They are there to make it very hard for us, thats why Hero interupter FTW!!

Remeard · May 31, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Of course they cheat, I've encountered a few enemys that use two elites, so this doesn't surprise me... though I can imagine that they have lots of energy and what not.

freekedoutfish · May 31, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

If its true that the creatures have completely unrealistic energy levels, and arent effected by exhaustion then im not impressed.

I had actually assumed after 18 months of playing, that they did suffer exhaustion and were under the same restrictions.

I actually built a mesma energy drain and interupting hero last night, thinking I could steel energy and render them useless. If its true they have huge energy storages, then that wouldnt work.

I think they should follow the same restrictions and limits as us. Otherwise how is it a realistic fight?

Stealthc · May 31, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

As pointed out earlier it will never be a realistic fight because a human opponent will never attack the fully protted tank blindly.

The AI is abused as much as the AI abuses the mechanics.

If the AI didn't have these advantages they'd never kill anything.

upier · May 31, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

testing of e-regen in NORMAL mode BEFORE HM!
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...5&postcount=64

additional info that i acquired later:
the minos in question AND the (WARRIOR) centaurs in the Desert (c1) HAD (before HM - so i have no idea if it was changed) an e-regen of 3 pips! (Panic+Well of weariness caused them to stop taking damage from Famine)
the vermins outside of Senji have 4 pips of e-regen - same test. meaning NORMAL e-regen!

so:
all we can say is that e-regen in pve doesn't follow the same rules as regen of players. it seems to do on some monsters BUT not all.
further testing should be done - but I am soo over it!
these days - all i wanna do is look good!
I'll leave the "being smart" to others!